james_nicoll ([info]james_nicoll) wrote,
@ 2005-03-24 11:26:00
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How I Would Salvage SPACE 1999
I posted a version of this over on sclerotic_ring's LJ.

So we were discussing how very odd it that an apparently unpromising show like the Battlestar Galactica of the 1970s could have a reasonable show inspired by it. This led to a discussion of other shows of the same era that did not reach their potential. I decided to see what could be done with SPACE 1999.

This is how I would make it not suck.



OK, basic elements that have to be kept:

The entire Moon has somehow been ejected from the solar system in some way that ideally doesn't destroy it or the solar system. This happened as the result of a mishap.

There were people on the Moon, from a variety of backgrounds.

The Moon was actually fairly developed, in terms of industry.

These people would like to return home (Part of the motive may be because the Moonbase was designed with the idea that there would be a habitable world 4 days away and the life support system cycles may not be all that closed).

Stuff that has to go:

No massive explosion.

SPACE 2020:

There's the beginning of space industrialization. Due to its location, the Moon is useful for a number of purposes, from supplying cheap fuel (from regolith) to providing a place where moderately dangerous experiments can be carried out safely (for the people on Earth).

There's a new Theory of Everything, one that seems to suggest inertia can be fiddled. This could have commercial possibilities. There was a mishap on Earth involving a billiard ball so the actual tests were moved to the Moon. A big test is coming up.

Someone points out an interpretation of the model that suggests that the volume in which inertia will change could be a lot larger than is expected. This interpretation is not the consensus so jolly bets like the ones about Trinity igniting the atmosphere get made and the test goes ahead as planned.

The signals from Earth suddently cut off.

On inspection, the stars are different. One entire hemisphere of the Moon appears to have been polished smooth and all the people there are presumed dead. Luckily, our brave researchers are not among the dead. Since they've just marooned everyone on the Moon umpty light years from home, they are not very popular but on the other hand, the only hope people have to getting back to Earth is to get a handle on what went wrong and retrace their footsteps.

The effect isn't that easy to direct so each time they use it, a little more of the Luanry surface is lost. Changing the rotational period of the Moon is Out, so if they want to head in a given direction, they have to wait until the Moon has rotated so that as little as possible of the surface will lost.

It should take a while for people to realize that each light year they travelled put them a year into the future and well, they are tens of thousands of light years from Earth.

Civilization survived the loss of the Moon and the subsequent slump of the tidal bulge in the ocean. The ToE inertia fiddlers let humans settle a large chunk of
the galaxy. Time has let humans become very odd. Happily the first people they run into are from about their era, thanks to relativity, but they are also the kind of people who'd have a reason to relocate ten thousand light years from home. These are also the people closest in time to the Oops, people who may have reasons to hate the scientists for what happened during the Big Slump. Sticking around here is probably a bad idea....

The closer the Moon-ship gets to Earth, the weirder things get.



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[info]sharp_blue
2005-03-24 05:24 pm UTC (link)
I'd watch that! It sounds very Vingean.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 05:44 pm UTC (link)
Well, I think I'd avoid anything like a Singularity. Ten or twenty thousand years, seen in stop-motion, gives a nice stage to play on, even if you are stuck with historical processes humans can comprehend.

On one hand, I kind of like the idea that the US turns out to have survived the Oops and what followed, leaving its imprint on history over much the same scale as Rome, Egypt or China. On the other, I have this half gelled image of a malevolent Buddhist imperial power, and this appeals to me because Buddhists never get to be the bad guys on TV.

Of course each world will have had its own history as diverse as Earth's, over such time as is defined by its distance from Earth.

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The malevolent Buddhists
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 07:16 pm UTC (link)
2100 or so. A kinder, gentler China (now a democracy) discovers Liberal Guilt. Obviously, they can't give Tibet back to the ethnic Tibetans, any more than the US can give Hawaii to the native Hawaiians or the EU can return Ukraine to the Slavs. China _can_ pay for a long range lightship that can go find a world far away from Earth, where the Tibetans can build a bucolic paradise just like the happy clappy Tibet every well-meaning Chinese person thinks existed before the unfortunate (but necessary) events of the 1950s.

And they do. Unfortunately what this group sees as central to a pure Tibetan culture is based on the very worse elements of Tibetan culture pre-invasion.

The Bonzes are firmly in control, the peasants are nicely oppressed, and they have a tech base (based on a very pointy social pyramid) advanced enough to rule a small empire of stars (badly). By the time the Moon wanders through the area, they've had a thousand years to expand their population to a few billion people and to evolve in directions that were not entirely optimum for the majority of people.

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[info]jeriendhal
2005-03-24 05:50 pm UTC (link)
Well, that would explain how the Moon manages to cross light years between episodes, but stays in a system long enough to have an adventure. It also intruduces a "Sliders" type element, where missing the proper rotational angle by a few seconds means that the Moon personnel must either wait several hours/days, or risk a blind jump.

I'm not sure the Vingian element would survive translation into a regular series, but then a lot of people stuck with "Farscape" longer that I did did when it started getting surreal.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 06:11 pm UTC (link)
It's ok with me if the Vingean element never shows up at all.

I can see a civilization "collecting" worlds and putting them in some handy central system. Maybe a yellow supergiant system, to give enough scale that one doesn't have to correct orbits to avoid collisions too often. This has the positive effect that light speed doesn't limit trade too much. It also has the benefit of keeping all those worlds in one place, where untoward social development can be detected and quashed.

I bet that if it is at all possible to build a device that prevents a repeat of what happened to the Moon, every inhabited world has some in place, to prevent unsanctioned relocations of their homes.

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[info]del_c
2005-03-24 06:26 pm UTC (link)
I'd want to know what these dire effects of the 'Big Slump' are supposed to have been if I'm not to lose my will to keep disbelief hanging there.

Given what we're doing to the global environment anyway, I don't see the loss of spring tides (the big ones) and neap tides (the little ones) and their replacement by a single uniform solar tide of lesser size, as that big a deal. We're only talking a couple of metres movement a day, after all.

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[info]sclerotic_rings
2005-03-24 06:33 pm UTC (link)
Well, that depends upon where those tides are. A drop of "only a couple of meters" will wipe out huge areas of mangrove swamp, and with them, the animals and plants dependent upon them. The economic effects snowball from there, especially with animals such as grunion and horseshoe crabs dependent upon spring tides for reproduction. I won't even get into plants such as coconuts and mangoes that depend upon those spring and neap tides to colonize new areas, or the need for spring tides to spread coral eggs and larvae.

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This is why one should always do the math
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 06:37 pm UTC (link)
Hrm. I think you're right. The immediate effects would be limited to the beaches.

So no Big Disaster as the water slumps. A number of extinctions, maybe, of species that use the moon as a trigger.

They could always replace the Moon, once they have a handle on the technology*. Mars is just sitting there, after all. Park it at about 760,000 km and it'll have the same tidal effect. Months will be about 79 days long, though.

* And issues like conservation of energy.

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Re: This is why one should always do the math
[info]del_c
2005-03-24 06:45 pm UTC (link)
My money's on Pluto: if they can work out how to stop it at the end of its long drop into the solar system, it's much cheaper to get started. Maybe they can bring Charon round the other way and smack them together at the right moment.

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Re: This is why one should always do the math
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 06:52 pm UTC (link)
Isn't Pluto similar to some comets? So if you move it to 1 AU, won't it tend to evaporate? I don't want to have to replace the damn moon every few million years.

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Re: This is why one should always do the math
[info]ailsaek
2005-03-24 08:15 pm UTC (link)
I don't want to have to replace the damn moon every few million years.

That was just such a beautiful statement that I had to see it again.

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Re: This is why one should always do the math
[info]del_c
2005-03-24 08:22 pm UTC (link)
I'm counting on Pluto's gravity to keep the evaporation rate down, per Vondrak*, so that total ablation takes on the order of 108 years. You can always drop Quaoar on it to top it up.

But sorry, I completely forgot your particular planet-moving technology doesn't depend on impulse, so maybe Mars is the best bet after all, though if mass and delta-v are no option, can I put in a plea for Venus instead?

* R R Vondrak "Creation of an Artificial Lunar Atmosphere" Nature, vol.248 pp.657-659 (1974)

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Re: This is why one should always do the math
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 03:35 pm UTC (link)
Mars seems easier to terraform.

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[info]corwyn_ap
2005-03-24 11:21 pm UTC (link)
A couple of meters in height can be a huge change in water covered area. Additionally, that intertidal zone is one of the most productive and fragile.

But the real problem is that going from a three body system to a two body system all of a sudden is going to leave the Earth with some delta-V that it really doesn't want. It's orbit is going to radically change.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 07:17 pm UTC (link)
I don't think so. The center of gravity of the Earth-Moon system is a lot closer to Earth's core than it is to the Moon's core. As a result, the Earth covers a lot less ground as the two bodies revolt around each other in the course of each 28 day month. I make it a few cm/s, in fact. Detectable by such astronomers as may not have stroked out because the _Moon_ is frickin' _gone_, man, but not of much interest to other people.

The Moon is thought to limit the range over which the Moon's obliquity varies. That would operate on time scales longer than I am interested in but it's a good reason for the Terran to find a replacement for the Moon.

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I clearly need more coffee
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 07:23 pm UTC (link)
The Moon is thought to limit the range over which the Moon's obliquity varies.

Over which the _Earth's_ obliquity varies, I mean. And with that silly error corrected, I am off for the rest of the afternoon.

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[info]space_parasite
2005-03-25 02:19 am UTC (link)
Isn't the sudden loss of the force that's making a 30-centimeter tidal bulge in the Earth itself going to cause a lot more trouble than the water sloshing around? Not to mention the equivalent effect on the Moon, which hardly needs more damage at this point.

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[info]del_c
2005-03-25 07:25 am UTC (link)
What trouble do you think it's going to cause? I can't address your concern if you can't describe what the concern is. At present the Earth's surface flexes up and down twice a day due to the vector sum of the Sun's and Moon's tidal effects. Without the Moon, it will flex up and down twice a day due to the Sun alone, with the total amplitude being on average about half (IIRC) what it used to be. What is it that you're thinking is going to happen as a result?

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 02:51 pm UTC (link)
It seems to me that in the matter of tidal forces, I have been thinking about the wrong body. The Moon is subject to 81x as much force and now that's gone. I wonder what happens? Gradual return to a more nearly spherelike configuration? A rapid return?

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[info]space_parasite
2005-03-26 01:54 am UTC (link)
The "before" and "after" configurations are fine. It's the sudden change that worries me. Possibly, given that the bulge travels around the globe at 1500+km/h, it's not a concern, but it really doesn't take much, on a planetary scale, to wreak huge devastation on a human scale.

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[info]rfmcdpei
2005-03-24 07:42 pm UTC (link)
Heh. Very cool, especially the evil Buddhists.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 08:20 pm UTC (link)
I think I'd like to at least pretend that this intertial thingie doesn't completely violate CoE, so objects can't gain or lose potential energy between the point where they go inertialess. This means the Moon always pops out somewhere near a large mass and that its path is always about the same distance from the center of the galaxy.

I think this means if it stopped near a giant star, 10 Solar Masses, say, it would be about 3 AU out. Pity a 10 M(sol) star would be a few thousand times brighter than the Sun. Imagine them frantically trying to calculate the next step before local sunrise.

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If you do it right
[info]bpholden
2005-03-24 10:19 pm UTC (link)
you might even conserve angular momentum which is usual problem with FTL.
The Society for the Conservation of Angular Momentum are an ornery bunch, you don't want to annoy them.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 08:25 pm UTC (link)
Hey. This explains why so many worlds encountered speak English. It's the fault of the Americans and their vexillary colonies....

Of course, after a few millennia it may be as hard to hear English in a language as it is to hear Roman in a Romance language.

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(Anonymous)
2005-03-24 09:55 pm UTC (link)
Great scenario, James. This would be even more impressive than the new Battlestar Galactica, since there was nothing wrong with the concept of BSG but Space: 1999 was silly from the start.

"Of course, after a few millennia it may be as hard to hear English in a language as it is to hear Roman in a Romance language"

That's an understatement, actually. It only took a thousand years to go from:
Wé cildra biddaþ þé, éalá láréow, þæt þú tæ'ce ús sprecan rihte, forþám ungelæ'rede wé sindon, and gewæmmodlíce we sprecaþ.
to:
We children beg you, teacher, that you should teach us to speak correctly, because we are ignorant and we speak corruptly.

After a few thousand years any relationship between the language people speak every day and English would be even more tenuous. Although maybe English (pronounced as if Kim Jong Il had been taught it by a native French speaker) is the ritual language of some religion or other, preserving it in the archaic form. It limits communication if you can only talk about how Allah will defeat the Demiurge, though. If you just want the guest actors talking modern English they could always call up "English, 2020" on their personal databases - a complete translation program would be the least you could expect from 5000AD technology.

Gareth Wilson

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A slight alteration of the time line
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-24 10:16 pm UTC (link)
They don't go ten thousand light years. They go one thousand at most. My reasoning if they are going to end up in the year 40,000 when they get home, there's no real point to heading home. A few centuries or a millennia offers the hope that some cultural elements will have been preserved well enough to offer continuity. A thousand years gives more than enough time to have interesting historical developments.

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Re: A slight alteration of the time line
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 03:39 pm UTC (link)
A thousand years might lead to an interesting dynamic between the New Worlders and the Old Worlders in Moonbase Alpha. Someone from a region some of whose institutions go back a thousand years* might have a different point of view from someone who thinks ancient history is what President Spears did for a living before she went into politics.

* Well, a lot of us live in countries that have some institutional ties to Rome. Roman Catholic Church and all that.

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Re: A slight alteration of the time line
[info]invunche
2005-03-25 05:59 pm UTC (link)
Too bad "Space 9999" won't work for your title. I can hear the suits grumbling...

p.s. Please write a cameo for Martin Landau.

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Re: A slight alteration of the time line
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 06:15 pm UTC (link)
SPACE 2099 could be made to work. Of course then one has to chart out the next 90-odd years, whereas the S1999 folks only had to worry about 20 years or so, to the extent that they did worry about future history.

Space 2029?

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Re: A slight alteration of the time line
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 06:36 pm UTC (link)
One advantage of 2020 or 2029 is that some of the current players on the world state could still be around. Imagine what the "Jesus is Coming Soon, So We Don't Need Those Nasty Parklands" crowd could do with Doc Smith level tools*. Any good names to to keep in mind?

It wouldn't surprise me if the Alphans eventually discovered that there was a decades long moritorium on the use of interial tech. After all, if the experiment had been done on Earth, Earth might have just lost a huge percentage of its biosphere or worse.

* Or how the Saturnists will react to the moon zipping away like a monster photon.

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Re: A slight alteration of the time line
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 06:40 pm UTC (link)
world stage, not world state. Obviously, there won't be a world state by 2020 or 2029.

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They wrote a book about it, they said it was like ancient Rome.
[info]invunche
2005-03-25 07:05 pm UTC (link)
Any good names to to keep in mind?

I am not sure, except that an enormous Ronald Reagan head should be seen on Mt. Rushmore, prior to our gang blasting off into the great deep. Of course the man's face will also be on money.

"Space 2029" has a ring to it, but I'll make one argument in favor of "Space 9999" before letting it go.

If "Space 9999" were the title of the series as a whole, then each individual episode could be titled "Space 2029", "Space 2099", "Space 2999", and so on, with "9999" hanging in the air as the series' eventual and vaguely ominous sounding series finale.

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[info]wdstarr
2005-03-25 02:37 am UTC (link)
There's the beginning of space industrialization. Due to its location, the Moon is useful for a number of purposes, from supplying cheap fuel (from regolith) to...

How does one extract energy from Moon rocks, cheaply or otherwise? Crack out the hydrogen, sort for deuterium, and run it through the cheap commercial fusion generators that are only thirty years away?

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 02:55 pm UTC (link)
Remember, I'm the big chemical rocket fan. They could use the H2 and O2 from cracking water at the poles (if there is water) or make less efficient fuels from stuff like aluminum and O2 from regolith.

I guess they could also have fission based thermal rockets. I'm not sure that by this point they'd have native sources of U or Th on the Moon (or if there would be any esp good ones). It might be that all the U was imported, in which case they have a supply problem.

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[info]boywhocantsayno
2005-03-25 05:02 am UTC (link)
Interesting premise.

I hope you don't mind, but I asked the person in charge of the BSG and Space: 1999 tracks for Toronto Trek to read this entry. Assuming he likes likes the idea, can we borrow it as fodder for a panel?

Actually, I can't recall if I've asked you this - are you coming to the con this year? You've obviously given this a lot of thought, and if you're planning on being at the con, if we do such a panel I'd be interested in your being on it.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 04:39 pm UTC (link)
I'm certainly intrigued by the idea of being on such a panel.

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[info]boywhocantsayno
2005-03-26 03:05 am UTC (link)
Well, the main con site is www.tcon.ca/tt19.

Panelist signup is here, and panel idea submissions can be entered here.

Though as I said, I already pointed the appropriate team member in the direction of your post, so submitting the idea wouldn't be strictly necessary. If you do decide to sign up, I'll pressure him into going forward with the idea. (It's good to be the Department Co-Head. :) )

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A lot of thought?
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-26 06:45 pm UTC (link)
I hadn't given it much thought when I posted. That kind of world building is pretty trivial.

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-25 05:46 pm UTC (link)
I haven't thought through how exactly the interstellar medium managed to erode the surface of the Moon (what hit me was the visual image on an Eagle crossing the terminator between the shielded and unshielded parts of the Moon to see faintly glowing smooth rock) but it puts an interesting constraint on the course, and it allows me to indulge a personal obsession:

Sol is in the middle of the Local Bubble, a region of galaxy where sunpernovae have apparently cleared out most of the interstellar materia that would otherwise fill space (This seems to extend all the way through the disk of the galaxy, so it is more of a chimney than a bubble). Now, there are patches of dense material in this bubble. The solar system is near one, in fact.

Say that the Moon was lucky and the path it took missed all the significant gas and dust clouds. These obstructions move and a thousand years may be enough time that the return path may no longer be as clear as it was the first time the Moon zipped through (Actually, a thousand years isn't all that long, as these things go, but maybe they got unlucky). Also, because they are taking short jumps, their path will dogleg, which may also bring them closer to obstructions than the first path did.

There's also the possibility that the Moon cleared an exceptionally long path through the ISM, one that subsequent ships use.

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[info]invunche
2005-03-25 07:29 pm UTC (link)
There's also the possibility that the Moon cleared an exceptionally long path through the ISM, one that subsequent ships use.
In this case, do you mean that the smooth side of the Moon was burnished by the ISM?

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[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-26 03:59 am UTC (link)
Yeah. Don't ask me how, though.

Be amusing if H + inertialess particle = fusion or even better, total annihilation. Cheap energy! Also, a burst of gamma rays (well, or more likely a complex assortment of particles, from photons to pions to whatever) all along the path of the moon.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

a few more comments
[info]james_nicoll
2005-03-26 06:26 pm UTC (link)
The original S1999 only had about 300 people on the Moon.

Isn't it odd that the Oops happened so that Alpha was protected by the body of the Moon? At least some people should suspect that it was no accident at all.

I think the plot possibilities are bigger if there's more than one moonbase and if they are not all run under one governing authority.

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