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OK, sometimes 'they're both from the same country, they must be the same person' *is* valid
james_nicoll
I think this has reached the point where nothing new on any side is going to get said and I would like to reclaim 'recent comments' for other subjects so I will be freezing this when I get home tonight

This might affect the author's rebranding except as far as I can tell editors already knew and didn't care.

Does anyone remember what, if any, repercussions there were from Blish revealing himself to be noted critical gadfly William Aethling, Jr.?

I have no idea what Nick means by shenanigans but this bit?
Unfortunately it means no Hugos or Campbells for her.

The odds of her winning a Not a Hugo Campbell Award were always slim because authors get exactly two rolls of the dice for that one but there's the other Not a Hugo Campbell for the novel John W. Campbell would have been least likely to buy while alive and I can assure you if Campbell ever bought a story from a woman from Asia, I am completely unaware of it.

The Hugo, who knows? There was a lot of cane-shaking at Rowling for sullying the grand traditions of our genre with books the general public actually wanted to read and yet she got a rocket.

[A note: due to problems with spam, I have to personally unscreen all anonymous comments and since it is Thanksgiving I cannot promise to be superdiligent about doing that for the next couple of days]

Also posted at Dreamwidth, where there are comment count unavailable comment(s); comment here or there.

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The pseudonym split her own voting bloc is why. Hugos are always about coalitions, but you need a base to start from in order to cultivate a bunch of people who'll rank you highly, if not #1. Small base==no Hugo.
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I'm not seeing a RH voting block in the Campbell
John W. Campbell  Award  for  Best New Writer (767  ballots)
156  Sofia Samatar 20.3%
146  Max Gladstone 19.0%
88  Marko  Kloos 11.5% *
77  Wesley  Chu 10.0%
73  Benjanun Sriduangkaew 9.5%
70  Ramez Naam 9.1%
61  Frank  Chadwick 8.0%
59  Helene Wecker 7.7%
51  Brooke Bolander 6.6%
44  Brian McClel lan  5.7%
42  Adam Christopher 5.5%
42  John  Chu 5.5%
37  Hugh Howey 4.8%
33  Django Wexler 4.3%
32  Leigh  Bardugo 4.2%
32  Madel ine Ashby 4.2%
32  Ann Leckie 4.2%
27  G. Willow Wilson 3.5%
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Mamatas, where would we ever be without you to stir the pot? Much more bored, for one thing. (This is said in tones of pure affection--I really like Nick a lot, and appreciate his pot-stirring, as well as his support for and fighting of a variety of Good Fights.)
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if you give me a minute I think I can still see some moral high ground from here

I was wrong about why people suspected RH and Sriduangkaew were the same person. I like both her blog and her fiction, but I don't follow either of the closely enough to remember the parallels until after the fact, and so I made easy assumptions about other people's easy assumptions.

But on the other hand a common response to angry criticism is "oh yeah, well let's see you do it," which is never really a valid response but Sriduangkaew did it, and it worked, so kudos. That's not really a moral position, is it? Oh well.

RH/Sriduangkaew my be a horrible person in private life, I don't know, but this whole persona switcheroo was well done. She's a talented writer.
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She's not a horrible person in real life.

The things RH said in reviews that are bandied about as 'death threats' are no such thing. It is true that RH/WF/ACM used to be a notorious LJ troll and drama-magnet, when she was NINETEEN. If we're going to hold authors and critics accountable for shit-stirring they did when they were in their teens and early twenties, may i respectfully suggest that there are worthier targets to start with? JFC.
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I assume from context that the "shenanigans" in question are things like this and <href="https://twitter.com/rcloenenruiz/status/519123464985538560">this</a>.
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I thought the previous comments along the lines that the writing styles of the "two" authors are too different for them to be the same person are particularly hilarious. And not just in retrospect!

Writers can change their voice, yo.
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Wait a minute. This is confirmed now?

I guess I'd better start looking for her fiction, then.
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Yup, it's confirmed. (And, nose-holding over trolling aside, I'll be nominating "Scale Bright" for best novella next year.)
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Colour me surprised. That was well played.
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Well, I'm very impressed that someone could create two such different writing styles and personas in a second or third language. Not a fan of RH/winterfox/the several other scoldy personas, though.
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Huh, I had managed to forget that she was winterfox here.

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EDITED TO BE MORE THOUGHTFUL: Given Ed Champion and everything else, it seems kind of ludicrous that Requires Hate's identity should make a difference beyond relief that it's not some white idiot pretending to be Thai.

Now, if someone knew the identity of Second City Cop, that would be a bombshell.

Edited at 2014-10-11 05:06 am (UTC)
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The thing that's getting attention here isn't that RH is Sriduangkaew, but that Sriduangkaew is RH.
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I notice that the Cindy Pon reviews are no longer available at RH...

Personal;ly I think the parallels between RH's hyperbole and say GamersGate inspired death threats are more imagined than real. There's a difference between somebody getting angry enough to make clearly ridiculous threats and the sort of organised hatred of a GamersGate frex.
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According to Cindy Pon's friend up there, the results, like the methods, are much the same. One lone attacker might be less bad in degree than an organized group, but RH sure put her back into it.
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I dare say it is pure coincidence that the group of authors primarily targeted by Winterfox / Requires Hate - female, non-white - happens to be the set of the most direct marketplace competitors of Benjanun Sriduangkaew.

Certainly any similarity of this behaviour to the Dark Tetrad of personality traits - Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy and sadism - that has recently been identified as characteristic of habitual online trolls is merely a chance resemblance.

Edited at 2014-10-12 01:13 am (UTC)
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I dare say it is pure coincidence that the group of authors primarily targeted by Winterfox / Requires Hate - female, non-white


The authors I remember her going after most viciously on RH were Bacigalupi, R. Scott Bakker and Charlaine Harris.
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Is nobody going to mention that Nick outed her at least partly for publicity for his new anthology, which Bee has a story in? https://ello.co/mamatas/post/IeCXDuTZRVd3TPSguc-KOg
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Unsurprising. Mamatas gonna Mamatas.
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Speaking as en ethnic minority: being a minority doesn't excuse her behavior. How is that hard to understand? If you're an abusive shit to _some_ people, you're an abusive shit, period.

The abusers I've known and had the pleasure to experience the attentions of have all been great at portraying themselves as martyrs and victims. But that doesn't change that they're abusive motherfuckers.

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oh - RH wld just say that means youre "white inside" & "self hating' like cindy pon (after all you use an 'orientalist trope' as yr username ) & anyway unless yr "ASIAN-ASIAN" yr opinion doesnt count anyway

you can only be a REAL ethnic minority if yr actually a majority in yr ancestral homeland

( according to winterfox logic @ least - yeah its pretty WTF , i had no idea she was as bad as that until now , i didnt realize her primary targets were other woc authors & the neckbeard attacks were camoflage )
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Has the author made any statement regarding what she posted under the RH persona? Does she stand behind what she posted as RH? The fact that so much has been deleted suggests that she does not, but I would like to hear more from her directly. If her statements were attributable to the "youthful mistakes" then perhaps "adult apologies" are in order?
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Any statement?

(Anonymous)
Has the author made any statement regarding what she posted under the RH persona? Does she stand behind what she posted as RH? The fact that so much has been deleted suggests that she does not, but I would like to hear more from her directly. If her statements were attributable to the "youthful mistakes" then perhaps "adult apologies" are in order?

All of which is interesting and it seems a lot of people would like answers, though no-one seems to have directly responded to this. It would also be interesting to see further comments/apologies from people who have been lauding RH to the skies for years and defending her bullying and racist comments, but particularly from those who have been playing the cute little fannish game of "yes, we KNOW who she is {*giggle*]and we'll drop hints every so often but we quite like the idea of being in the know and anyway it's all harmless because her targets are Bad People". I have to say that my respect for quite a number of luminaries in the sf and pro world has plummeted on seeing their complicity in the foulnesses described in these threads -- and a lot more that I've seen in the years. If we want the biggest Fail in fandom, then I think we've got it right here, in the way so many excuses have been made and so much shoddy morality has been displayed.

Which of course implies my own complicity . . . I think what comes out of this is a fascinating understanding of buzzwords like "privilege": because I have never actually felt *threatened* by RH I certainly have overlooked the fact that real people -- whose testimony I'm reading here -- have felt threatened in the face of dreadful abuse, and that it's so easy to ignore it all because after all it's just robust rhetoric or anyway it's argument on the "right" side of the political struggle. I don't think I know the people here who have described their experiences, and have certainly not witnessed in real time what happened, but I feel I owe them (and many others) an apology nevertheless.

(All of which helps to explain my which to post anonymously -- This already looks like preaching and I'm not interested in carrying on long discussions when I've many more constructive things to do, so I'm walking away from this discussion after this. Call me "Apologiser" if you like to distinguish me from the many other Anons. I don't care: I suppose it would be mildly amusing to see if people think I've nothing to apologise for (and for what reasons), but I'll let that go by.)

Suffice to say that some "adult" and public apologies -- as well as private ones -- are in order. I don't care under which identity they are made, but some sense of responsibility would be nice. Or, if making violent personal slurs about someone's racial or gender identity is seen as something to be proud of, let's have that admission right in the open. I'm sure lots of people have had a lot of fun over the years, and but it doesn't look like fun from here.

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Incidentally, a complete Wayback machine cache should be available now. It was temporarily unavailable because of an accidentally overzealous robots.txt file.
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Danken, much appreciated.

Edited to add:

Okay, why did she take down the Pon reviews? I get why she might have taken down the bakker stuff when you've got paragraphs like;

Why do all neckbeards trot out this one? “You don’t know me, you don’t know meeeee.” Either it’s their wife, or their mom, or their goldfish, who thinks they are just dandily perfect human beings and would never, ever do or say anything that’d be sexist/racist/homophobic. The thought that people might be remotely justified at all never strikes them. It’s simply not possible. After all, people who know them say so. The rest of us who simply derive his attitudes from what he says and does online, well, we could never be magical enough to truly know him.

...happening. If only because no one enjoys being beaten around the head with the golden rule.

But the review of Silver Phoenix seems fairly unobjectionable, though she rips it to shreds in a fashion that made my ability to write cross its legs.

Edited at 2014-10-13 03:25 am (UTC)
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People who have been threatened or bullied or witnessed threats, I am here in solidarity

(Anonymous)
I believe you. I am looking into this and would like to know more. Please email me at loudlysingcuckoo at gmail dot com. Use a pseudonymous account, as you prefer, to protect your safety.

Thanks.
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Re: People who have been threatened or bullied or witnessed threats, I am here in solidarity

Hey, guys. I spoke with this anon privately and confirmed that they are not Winterfox, they are not a friend or sock of Winterfox, and they have a verifiable online presence dating back years. And you guys know that I'm not Winterfox, and I think it's pretty clear I'm not reporting back to her, so we've got a chain of identity going here.

I don't have any other involvement with this anon and can't endorse anything (uh, not that y'all are likely to ask me for an endorsement, but lemme tell you, Wheaties is the shit) but this is not a trick from Winterfox and friends.
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My take-away from this thread? It's past time to start screenshotting everything this repeat abuser does. She has a long history of vicious attacks on people and of then deleting those attacks and leaving her friends to make excuses for her. Regardless of what she's calling herself now, she will revert to her normal behaviour of threats, abuse, and harrassment. That's just who she is. So screenshot it. Then when her friends come forward to play useful idiot ("Oh you don't understand, WF/RH/Bee is a satirist/the real victim/just responding to someone being less than perfectly obsequious to her.") respond with the shot. Let them deal with her words in the original context.

Frankly, it's not safe to interact with this person without keeping records of it.
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That's your take-away from this thread? My take-away is that people are awfully eager to dogpile on somebody who's fallen from grace.

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