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As pointed out in There is No Cabal
james_nicoll
Two things happening at about the same time:


According to some accounts, in the beginning of the 13th century King John of England (1167–1216) sent an embassy to the Almohad Sultan Muhammad al-Nasir (1199–1213), requesting military support and an alliance against France. At home, King John was faced with a dire situation, in which his Barons revolted against him, he had been excommunicated by the Pope, and France was threatening to invade. The embassy of three was led by Bishop Roger, and King John supposedly offered to convert to Islam and pay a tribute to al-Nasir in exchange for his help. Al-Nasir apparently dismissed the proposal.


There seems to be some skepticism whether John really made this offer and how successful it would have been if John had converted (and presumably got the rest of his kingdom to go along with this, because if he doesn't, I don't see his time on the throne being especially long). An Islamic England and Catholic Scotland and Ireland sure would give those diplomatic relations an interesting spin.

And just a little later on, over on the Continent:

Franco-Mongol relations were established in the 13th century, as Christian Crusaders and the Mongol Empire attempted to form a Franco-Mongol alliance against the Muslims.


So, the Anglo-Islamic Alliance on one side and the Franco-Mongols on the other: WHO WILL WIN???!!!!

Also posted at Dreamwidth, where there are comment count unavailable comment(s); comment here or there.

The rest of the world?

I wonder how a series set in this world would go over with the alternate history crowd. Do they hate/fear Muslims more or less than they do the French?

(also, obligatory acknowledgment that allying with the Mongols has certain risks)

Edited at 2013-01-25 05:06 pm (UTC)

"...Do they hate/fear Muslims more or less than they do the French?..."

The way things are going in France, this question may not be understandable in another generation.

"...[A]ccording to some accounts..." King John was willing to have his foreskin removed?

I love Wikipedia.

Especially since Weekly World News folded. (I miss the Bat Boy headlines!)

S.O.S. (Seeker of Obscure Supernaturals)

Aaah, that's what the Haruhi Suzumiya stories are referencing.

Really? Eurabia?

You really need to start working on a better set of right-wing tinfoil hattery to advocate.

Oh for God's sake, don't you start.

Spreading easily disproven ideas does you no favours.

And if, for example, you had mentioned the Republicans Demand Obama Resign Over Beyonce Lip-Synching Scandal thing as though it was real, I'd have pointed out that it wasn't true, too.

There's a billionaire in Tennessee who might not agree....

Why don't you beat up a little kid and take his lunch money? Seems more your speed.

I'd rather humiliate deluded jackasses like you.

I didn't mean to suggest you do it alone!

Bring the rest of the gang.

Sorry to frighten you.

We both know who the fearful little bully here, Matthew. It's the guy who put up a little "scream and leap" kzinti icon and rant about feminists and Muslims, as if that could conceal his insecurity.

They say alcoholics stay at the mental age when they first started drinking. When did you start? When you were nine?

Says the guy who started.

Don’t blame James. You’re the one who repeated bigoted right-wing propaganda in front of people who could recognize it for what it was.

We start because you're a fucking idiot. Don't like it? Don't be a fucking idiot.

You ask so much from someone who can give so little.

In another generation a bunch of today's young French Muslims will be complaining about whoever the latest wave of immigrants are(oh, say, a bunch of folks from places that are underwater because of global warming), because they're not assmilating into French culture properly, ie not being secular enough.


I do wonder what the effects on French cuisine will be.

See also: Irish-Americans complaining about immigrants and their strange, threatening religions

"(also, obligatory acknowledgment that allying with the Mongols has certain risks)"


But the French have an advantage, geographically speaking: the Mongols will have to make their way through all of Poland and the HRE before they can personally adress any disagreements with their allies. (And if they actually fight the people they are supposed to be fighting, all the way though Mameluke Egypt, north Africa, Muslim spain and the Christian Spains.) [1]

Bruce


[1] Come to think of it, what's in it for the Mongols? What are the French doig to help the Khans out? Islamic Britain is hardly a worrisome issue to the Mongols.

I'm pretty sure I have had a few Medieval: Total War games that went that way.

I read James' post to my kid (the one who plays Europa Universalis III). He loved it.

In my best-advanced game of Crusader Kings, my England did liberate ... I want to say Toledo ... from the Muslims, in response to the Pope's dictates. Of course, that left me with the problem of who to leave as my vassal there. I needed someone who would stay faithful to me (had enough vassal problems already) and not go picking fights with the Catholic dukedoms and whatnot around it as I try to play for a more peaceful world in these games.

So, yeah, the just-vanquished Muslim potentate was the best choice to give the province to. And he was peaceful yet the Pope kept throwing these fits.


Ah, you play differently than I do. I like to spread my genes as widely as possible. So I make it a mission to give every territory I can to a fellow member of my dynasty. This is probably why I don't end up taking over all Europe like some people, but it's fun for me.

Wasn't this one of the GURPS alternate worlds? Forget which book it was in, but I think it was one they included.

It was, a sidebar on Poland in GURPS Swashbucklers. (Page 82 in my PDF, I didn't go dig my old dead tree book out to see where it is in that one though.)

So, the Anglo-Islamic Alliance on one side and the Franco-Mongols on the other: WHO WILL WIN???!!!!

Conrad Stargard and his retro-industrialized Poles?

And/or the Russo-African Greater Prosperity Through Proletariat Overwhelmingness Coalition?

--Dave, will realign historical axes out of joint for food