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Meanwhile in wikipedia
The Deletion Wars continue.

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What a classy individual, this RadioFan. :/

I noticed that OSFS has a Wikipedia entry that's been similarly targeted. As a long-standing member - I may currently be in arrears, mind you - I do have to wonder about this.

It's the same Wikipedia user (according to the Kevin Standlee post) who seems to have a bee in his (?) bonnet about the "notability" of *any* science fiction group, since said groups generally don't get a huge amount of mainstream media coverage as opposed to their own peer media source.

I personally think Wikipedia's notability rules should be changed to be much more inclusive, but I have to ask: What is it that fan organizations do?

I ask as an outsider who honestly doesn't know, not to be snarky.

The big ones run large conventions and are small publishing houses. (NESFA, for instance.)

The medium ones run medium-sized conventions and are libraries and discussion groups.

Wow. Look at the attack on Pibgorn. The printed book doesn't count because it's self-published, an article in the Washington Post online comics blog doesn't count because it's on the Internet. In general, Wikilawyering reigns supreme.

I'd think that because the blog in question is affiliated with the Washington Post, that would obtain a bit of extra credibility.

You'd think, but no.

I wonder how any modern Web-based entity is going to meet Wikipedia's print-biased standards. (I also note that in one of the science fiction cases, LA Times cites are not accepted because the newspaper is behind a paywall.)

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
Wiki-alzheimers in the works?

This who thing started because a Canadian group was up for deletion, and a member protested, saying, "If you delete us, then you should delete all these other SF groups!" Which, of course, RadioFan proceeded to do.

I think groups that are publishers (like NESFA) won't have an issue, but many of the groups that only put on cons (like PSFS) will, despite their being a part of fan history. The cons themselves will remain, and the group will be a part of that article instead. So if you're looking for PSFS, you now have to look under Philcon.

Here is the original email that was sent out...

I'm the co-chair for CAN-CON, a science fiction convention up here in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and a long time faan, having started in Fandom in the late 1970s. It has come to my attention that a person on Wikipedia who goes by the username of "RadioFan" has taken upon himself or herself to go around and attempt to delete most of the Science Fiction club entries on Wikipedia. I don't know what this person has against Science Fiction fans, but RadioFan has marked your organization's along with many other SF organizations for deletion in 7 days or less. Under the Wikipedia rules, a large number of people need to log on to the Wikipedia site, and post in the "delete discussion page" stating that they think that your entry should be kept, and not deleted. Please consult other talk pages and Wikipedia rules to do it correctly.

I fear that I am partially responsible for this because the entry for the local Science Fiction Club, the Ottawa Science Fiction Society (OSFS) which has been in existence since 1977 had their Wikipedia entry marked for deletion. I stated that the entry for OSFS was just as good as the long existing entries for a number of clubs and organizations, and if it was so bad, then why were the others not being deleted as well.


RadioFan has now gone on a crusade against all of the fan groups I compared the OSFS entry to and is attempting to have their entries deleted.

Because of that, I felt that I should let people know what is happening so that they can protect your Wikipedia entries, and apologize for precipitating this crisis.

I am using whatever addresses I can find on the various group's websites to let people know...please forward this to whom ever it might be of interest to.

Farrell McGovern

Ummm... Wikipedia admin with a deletionist bent speaking here:

There's no way around it: use of the "other articles like this one exist" argument is not seen as a valid argument for retention of the article you are defending, it is seen as a pointer to other articles that might also need deleting.

I wonder if we could get the main page of wikipedia redacted. After all, it doesn't seem to meet wikipedia's retention criteria.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
... and with each such deletion or modification, Wikipedia's authority on subjects approaches 0 + (epsilon).

Is it inappropriate...

... to point out that Fanlore* would probably welcome any and all homeless articles about fannish matters?

* This is the one that's run by the same people as the AO3, not the one that's run by the person who likes to connect people's fanfic-writing names with their pro names for fun and profit.

Re: Is it inappropriate...

More and more I wish the folks that came up with Fanlore had come up with something that didn't start with fan because I honestly can never remember which is good and which is evil.

Re: Is it inappropriate...

I have it written down so I can check it.

I suppose I could have the mnemonic that Lore is just Data, or some such.

A Wikipedia "editor" using the moniker "RadioFan" seems to be trying to delegitimize Science Fiction Fandom. It will be interesting to see if the move is successful. What happens to Science Fiction Fandom when it is no longer a legitimate entity?

I don't think that not having individual Wikipedia entries for individual SF fan organizations, however worthy and large and accomplished, will have any impact on SF fandom or the world at large.

I think this guy is being a complete jerk, don't get me wrong, and I think his whole crusade is petty in the extreme, but people will still be able to find information on these organizations with the Google.

So, it's the webcomics deletionism crusade all over again?

Except that it's not so much a crusade as one bored troll trying to erase other people's work, yes.

And I say this as the guy who had to pull a quick Wapsi Square article out of his anatomy because the long detailed one had been erased - and people still wanted a quick guide to the webcomic.

Yeah, though the sense of entitlement is larger, the tempest windier, and the teapot smaller.

Never read the comments...

On a lark, I went to read comments here:

(´Д` )

It isn't just RadioFan. A Brit named RHaworth is busily deleting anything he can get away with (including that which RadioFan brings to his attention) because it makes him the big frog in the small pond, despite that he knows literally nothing about science fiction.

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