APPENDIX
This is what it says on the label. There are still some points of interest.
Authors: Tsiolkowsky in Russia, Bernal in England, and Cole in the U.S.A. all wrote books which bear on the concept of space colonies. Clarke, Stroud and others have also considered portions of the problem.
Tsiolkovsky is the father of astronautics (He seems not to have enjoyed much publication in English that I can find). Bernal was a pioneer in the field of X-ray crystallography (and someone whose politics led him in unfortunate directions) but the author is probably referring to The World, the Flesh & the Devil. Dandridge Cole was an engineer and futurist who wrote such works as Islands in Space: The Challenge of the Planetoids, (with Donald W. Cox) [1] but his contributions to this topic of discussion were limited by his death at age 44. Clarke is Arthur C. and I assume I don't have to explain his connection to this discussion. I have no idea who Stroud is.
A discussion of Islands in Space can be found here.
I wonder how much of my interest in this sort of thing has been driven by illustrations such as this? I wonder what that guy is pointing at?
Niven fans will note the similarity between this illustration and the habitat the Belters created so they'd have a place where women could bring kids to term (In Known Space, free fall + pregnancy = Very Bad Outcome).
Bearing forces are small, typically one ten-millionth of colony weight in one gravity.
Speaking of bearings, I've always been a bit nervous about the potential for disaster in designs that have spin-decouplers.
The goal is apparently to minimize transport costs by building cities near asteroids and then moving the cities to their final destination over the course of a generation or more. This would seem to require asteroids rich in everything a city needs. It also raises the interesting idea of what I will call for lack of a better term cities in flight, where entire communities can migrate to where the economic action is (The time scales involved may make this less than entirely effective).
Huh. Does O'Neill never discuss mass ratios? He could make the case for off-Earth resources look even better if he did that (A hydrogen/oxygen rocket could in theory produce a delta vee of 10 km/s with a mass ratio of 12. It could produce a delta vee of 2.5 km/s with a mass ratio of 1.9). He seems to be determined to avoid the apparent inefficiencies of rockets by using fixed accelerators where possible.
In PTA an estimate of 10,000 tons for lift-needs from earth to L5 was given, and 3,000 tons for transfer from the earth to the moon [...]
That would run about $6.5 billion dollars if the shuttle had actually been able to deliver material to space at $500.00 a kilo. I think the actual cost is something like 20-40 times that.
The structural aluminum considered for use in colony-building is an alloy of aluminum and silicon, the most plentiful of lunar elements after oxygen.
I assume lunar aluminum is bound with oxygen? So there will be a considerable need for electrical generation on the Moon in this scheme.
D. Criswell (ref. 5) has calculated the yields of carbon nitrogen and hydrogen which could be obtained by sifting lunar soils for the finegrained material, and then heating that material.
I'd be curious what the energy cost per kilogram of that was.
Vehicle development costs: for an advanced (non-shuttle-derived) heavy lift vehicle, estimates of development cost from within the aerospace industry vary from 5 billion dollars to 25 billion dollars; of attainable launch costs to geosynchronous, from $77/Kg to $400/Kg.
Unfortunately this was a gross underestimate.
One area requiring verification is semi-closed-cycle ecology. Many small islands have effective ecosystems more limited than that of the first colony, but verification is still required.
Any biologists care to comment on this?
1: I own this and could review it. I see a reference from Cole's grandson to an online version but I have not stumbled across that edition yet.
- Space Colonies: Vision: Appendix
Small islands
(Anonymous)
2009-05-21 04:34 pm (UTC)
In nature, it actually takes a pretty large island -- a few hundred square km. minimum -- to support human-sized omnivores. Obviously intensive agriculture and management reduces that considerably, but we're still talking square kilometers.
Note that small islands are not closed ecosystems, as they're getting their air and water from outside.
Doug M.
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 04:50 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 07:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 08:19 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 09:04 pm (UTC)
http://www.globalecotechnics.com/biosph
The other thing that's probably holding back the research, at least in the US, is probably Congress's longstanding unofficial ban on funding anything that looks like Mars Mission research.
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 09:18 pm (UTC)
They're in Santa Fe.
Big Surprise.
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 11:57 pm (UTC)
He would contribute frequently to CoEvolution Quarterly and would go on to a role among the designers of Biosphere 2.
I spotted Warshall's name, but haven't sifted the book to see if there are any other future B2 people jumping into the dialogue.
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 04:56 pm (UTC)
Cylindrical Rotating Habitats
Given a 3 'crop' rotational system (to keep it simple - although a continuous/incremental system would do better I'm going to skip those for now because the science is still being developed).
If we assume a 12 hr light/dark cycle to provide for both O2 and CO2 cycles in the vegetation. What is the minimum hectares of vegetation needed to provide the O2 and CO2 recycling needed for one person per growing season.
Assuming that at the end of the growing season (using the non-incremental cycle model) how much edible material would be available for consumption by that one person and the re-fertilization of the soil for manual and microbiotic replenishment of the growth nutrients for that plot's next turn in the cycle?
The above rests on the classic agriculture model of plots of soil and growth/harvest/replenishment cycles.
The number of hectares that is a result is the inner surface area needed per person for the classic cylinder rotational based farm.
Back to the obvious...
If you use algae to do a continuous growth medium, then you are not limited to a rotational 2-d system and have a much better throughput in the system. But as a said above, it's still being developed and doesn't have the same 100+ years of research data and practical applications behind it that modern technical farming does.
- krin
Edited at 2009-05-21 04:58 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 06:16 pm (UTC)
Winogradsky invented his semi-famous column in the 1880s, which could be considered a semi-closed ecological cycle. It produced two direct lines of experimentation: the ecospheres, closed glass ecosystems with algae and Hawaiian red shrimp, which last for years; and the Soviet approach to space ecological systems, which was to put a guy in a small sealed tank -- 5 cubic meters -- with some algae and light for recycling, for up to a month. That used [rummages] 3 algae tanks of 15 liters each, with a dry mass of algae of 10 grams per liter.
So a pound of algae and one very unhappy experimental subject, we can probably take as the minimum.
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 08:40 pm (UTC)
Unhappy would be the mild way of putting it.
I would think that if you grew food the amount of algae would go up a lot: soil-air interactions...
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 08:54 pm (UTC)
(Checking, because I check these things, it turns out that 1970s station wagons had similar amounts of passenger plus cargo volume. But I think the experience was probably more like the Porta-Potty.)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 09:00 pm (UTC)
Something I realized a long while back is that you have to ridiculously overdesign your stations/world ships. There's probably going to be a population growth that's going to be nuts...and over the course of centuries...
Or the whole thing will implode within a decade from a high level of misery.
Re: Small islands
(Anonymous)
2009-05-22 06:48 am (UTC)
And even if a station has a large surplus of industrial capacity and thus can build however much living space is required, I would still expect space stations to be very low population growth places simply because they are by nessesity going to be very hightech, high education ect places. (and honestly, the kids will all be leaving for college anyway.. so actual growth will be immigration.)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-22 07:52 pm (UTC)
I don't see that as a stable configuration, really...*shrugs* Probably our differences of opinion spring from that.
Re: Small islands
2009-05-22 12:33 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-22 12:35 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 10:23 pm (UTC)
Re: Small islands
2009-05-21 06:28 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 05:27 pm (UTC)
"And when we set off the explosives, the magical light rod thingy will hit the hull right....THERE."
2009-05-21 05:36 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 06:04 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 08:21 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 08:15 pm (UTC)
The need for a fancy reflecting light tunnel mirror thingie is one of the factors against the cylinder and sphere shapes for a space colony -- it's a lot easier to get light into a torus. Here's a good illustration of the illumination scheme for a torus (from NASA's design study).
2009-05-21 05:50 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 05:50 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 06:14 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 11:09 pm (UTC)
Hmmm . . . maybe you've heard of this too? My memory places this sometime in the 70's, and yes, this seemed to be some sort of SB Whole Earth spinoff organization. I don't think I'm misremembering a bit of sf, say, something by Alan Steele. But then, I wouldn't know if I was, would I?
2009-05-22 01:57 am (UTC)
2009-05-21 07:19 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 06:08 pm (UTC)
The one example I can think of off-hand of moving O'Neill style habitats [1] is in Vonda McIntyre's Starfarers series, where the vessel used by the heroes is propelled by light that apparently has never heard of F = P/C.
1: Apparently there's a Bova where this is done but I have not read it.
2009-05-21 08:21 pm (UTC)
-- Steve had a few go slow-boating off to "nearby" systems out of paranoid fear of further automated attacks, which made their subsequent encounters with quantum-twinned handwavium gates sent to the same targets at higher speeds by those who stayed "home" interestingly dramatic.
2009-05-21 08:36 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 07:22 pm (UTC)
2009-05-21 09:51 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)
2009-10-28 05:02 am (UTC)
Which might, in fact, turn out to be true, considering how little data we have on both the effects of long-term microgravity on biology and on the fine-level details of pregnancy and gestation. There are still a lot of unanswered questions about both.
(Yes, astronauts have spent long periods in microgravity, that's just a start.)
A good example of SFnal wishful speculation, it used to be a _common_ trope that low-gravity would make for longer lifespans, absent any data. It turns out that microgravity is very bad for you, we just don't know about 'low' gravity either way yet. Not even data.