james_nicoll: Things I did not know

james_nicoll (

james_nicoll) wrote,
@ 2009-03-10 10:03:00

Things I did not know
Apparently in their current version, the skin of Drow who convert to good becomes lighter coloured while the "blackness of the drow's skin has become a permanent sign of their depravity". The Curse of the Lamanites angle seems to have been introduced by self-confessed Canadian author Lisa Smedman in The Lady Penitent.

Nicked from arielstarshadow

(84 comments) - (Post a new comment)

	ailsaek 2009-03-10 02:08 pm UTC (link)
	Ew. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lovecraftienne 2009-03-10 02:12 pm UTC (link)
	(echo) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	james_nicoll 2009-03-10 02:12 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, it's just D&D, the rpg dedicated to depicting permanent race war. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	arielstarshadow 2009-03-10 02:18 pm UTC (link)
	It would be interesting to see a D&D world where all of the sentient races had the full spectrum of alignments, instead of being shoved into boxes. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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ms_danson, 2009-03-10 02:20 pm UTC (Expand)

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pauldrye, 2009-03-10 02:37 pm UTC (Expand)

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ms_danson, 2009-03-10 02:40 pm UTC (Expand)

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arielstarshadow, 2009-03-10 03:42 pm UTC (Expand)

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pauldrye, 2009-03-10 07:25 pm UTC (Expand)

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arielstarshadow, 2009-03-10 09:34 pm UTC (Expand)

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antikythera, 2009-03-10 02:56 pm UTC (Expand)

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ms_danson, 2009-03-10 02:58 pm UTC (Expand)

heh -

anzhalyumitethe, 2009-03-10 04:49 pm UTC (Expand)

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jcfiala, 2009-03-10 02:47 pm UTC (Expand)

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arielstarshadow, 2009-03-10 02:50 pm UTC (Expand)

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jcfiala, 2009-03-10 02:59 pm UTC (Expand)

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doc_lemming, 2009-03-10 03:13 pm UTC (Expand)

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kynn, 2009-03-10 02:57 pm UTC (Expand)

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chaotic_nipple, 2009-03-10 06:49 pm UTC (Expand)

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ailsaek, 2009-03-10 02:54 pm UTC (Expand)

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chaotic_nipple, 2009-03-10 06:43 pm UTC (Expand)

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deor, 2009-03-10 11:01 pm UTC (Expand)

	paleshadow 2009-03-10 02:15 pm UTC (link)
	Thank God for Rule 0. (Reply to this)

	ms_danson 2009-03-10 02:16 pm UTC (link)
	What?? o_O (Reply to this)

	apis_mellifera 2009-03-10 02:19 pm UTC (link)
	Wow. Just...wow. (Reply to this)

	carloshasanax 2009-03-10 02:33 pm UTC (link)
	People of science fiction, you can rejoin modern society without shame, without embarrassment. If any of you are still white, we can cure you. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	james_nicoll 2009-03-10 02:41 pm UTC (link)
	This is RPGs, not SF. SF has persistant issues but roleplaying has them turned up to 11. I mean, there are rpg companies selling miniatures of semi-naked women being tortured. I remember being amazed when my copy of Ex Machina and the woman on the cover turned out to have been drawn by someone who had actually seen breasts. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	kynn 2009-03-10 02:45 pm UTC (link)
	I'm pretty sure that the Drizzt books are NYT bestsellers. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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beckyh2112, 2009-03-10 06:00 pm UTC (Expand)

	doc_lemming 2009-03-10 02:52 pm UTC (link)
	Not knowing what Ex Machina is (though a quick Google search suggests it's the Tri-Stat Cyberpunk book), what attribute of the cover makes you say that? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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james_nicoll, 2009-03-10 02:56 pm UTC (Expand)

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carloshasanax, 2009-03-10 03:14 pm UTC (Expand)

Wait, can I change my answer? -

james_nicoll, 2009-03-10 03:28 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Wait, can I change my answer? -

doc_lemming, 2009-03-10 04:27 pm UTC (Expand)

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argonel, 2009-03-10 04:40 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Wait, can I change my answer? -

seawasp, 2009-03-10 07:25 pm UTC (Expand)

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chaotic_nipple, 2009-03-11 03:47 am UTC (Expand)

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argonel, 2009-03-10 04:41 pm UTC (Expand)

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carloshasanax, 2009-03-10 05:03 pm UTC (Expand)

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james_nicoll, 2009-03-10 05:23 pm UTC (Expand)

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carloshasanax, 2009-03-10 05:52 pm UTC (Expand)

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james_nicoll, 2009-03-10 05:56 pm UTC (Expand)

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carloshasanax, 2009-03-10 10:51 pm UTC (Expand)

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wdstarr, 2009-03-11 12:17 am UTC (Expand)

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andrewwheeler, 2009-03-11 08:03 pm UTC (Expand)

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fridgepunk, 2009-03-10 09:33 pm UTC (Expand)

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agrumer, 2009-03-10 09:50 pm UTC (Expand)

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fridgepunk, 2009-03-10 10:10 pm UTC (Expand)

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wdstarr, 2009-03-11 12:10 am UTC (Expand)

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chaotic_nipple, 2009-03-11 03:50 am UTC (Expand)

	bpholden 2009-03-10 11:02 pm UTC (link)
	If any of you are still white, we can cure you. Is there, like, a soap or something to wash it out? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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carloshasanax, 2009-03-10 11:43 pm UTC (Expand)

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bpholden, 2009-03-11 07:12 am UTC (Expand)

	(Anonymous) 2009-03-10 02:37 pm UTC (link)
	And this is why we have GURPS. tlönista (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sinboy 2009-03-11 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah. That's free of any race issues. bwahaha (Reply to this) (Parent)

kynn
2009-03-10 02:49 pm UTC (link)

Apparently in their current version, the skin of Drow who convert to good becomes lighter coloured while the "blackness of the drow's skin has become a permanent sign of their depravity".

What's your source for this? I just pulled out the Monster Manual and the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (which has Drow as a playable race), and neither one says anything about this.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

arielstarshadow
2009-03-10 03:01 pm UTC (link)

Sorry, my post is friends-only, but here are the two LJ links for you!

http://haikujaguar.livejournal.com/616052.html?nc=89
http://eric-hinkle.livejournal.com/258056.html

"the "blackness of the drow's skin has become a permanent sign of their depravity"

That comes from WotC. Never mind that the drow coloring pre-dated their becoming evil, according to prior FR information.

From the numerous comments and whatnot, it sounds as though the author (of the novel series that then became canon) was doing what WotC asked her to do, but by how much, I don't know. I also don't like that I'm seeing reports of people getting banned on the WotC forums for questioning what was done.

You won't see this in either of those books because it became canon after the novel series. It also sounds as though there are only a very few of these good, lighter-skinned drow around, so most drow (who remained evil) retained the old coloring.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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kynn, 2009-03-10 03:27 pm UTC (Expand)

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arielstarshadow, 2009-03-10 03:40 pm UTC (Expand)

	arielstarshadow 2009-03-10 03:21 pm UTC (link)
	I should add I'm happy to friend people, but I've gotten more and more boring as time goes on, so.... ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kynn 2009-03-10 02:56 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, that seems to be a misreading of the event described at the end of this entry, which isn't really about Drow "converting to good." (Reply to this) (Thread)

	arielstarshadow 2009-03-10 03:01 pm UTC (link)
	See links to your post just above! :) It's not a misreading, in my opinion. The good drow's skin lightened as a result of becoming good. There's really no way to "misread" that. Edited at 2009-03-10 03:02 pm UTC (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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kynn, 2009-03-10 03:28 pm UTC (Expand)

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derekl1963, 2009-03-10 03:50 pm UTC (Expand)

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joenotcharles, 2009-03-10 07:48 pm UTC (Expand)

	agharta75 2009-03-10 04:32 pm UTC (link)
	Good grief. Message to Dragonlance authors: try to be a little bit less obvious about who you are ripping off, eh? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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dinpik, 2009-03-10 06:48 pm UTC (Expand)

graeme_lindsell
2009-03-10 11:47 pm UTC (link)

Drow have always been one of the nastier elements of D&D, the Ethnic Cleansing Game. Black elf = evil, white elf = good. Of course, all the powergamers wanted to play drow because they were mechanically superior.

I was a bit surprised they didn't make 4th edition drow Shadowfell residents in the core cosmology, then you'd have an elvish race native to each of the Feywild, Middle World and Shadowfell. They could have even made them non-evil by default. Can't have that though.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	wakboth 2009-03-11 07:39 pm UTC (link)
	I always took drow, with their glossy blue-black skin, white hair and red eyes, to be just photo-negatives of high elves (with pale skin, dark hair and green eyes). (Reply to this) (Parent)

chaotic_nipple
2009-03-11 03:40 am UTC (link)

Personally, I find this to be a nice touch. Plenty of real world cultures have stories like this, so putting them into a game world, regardless of whether they fit our modern American sensibilities, makes the setting in question seem more "realistic" to me. YMMV, of course. The fact that they did something like this so half-assedly _does_ offend me, but it's hardly the worst thing they did to the setting for fourth edition.

Edited at 2009-03-11 04:14 am UTC

(Reply to this)

wakboth
2009-03-11 07:45 pm UTC (link)

Never seen this in any edition of D&D that I've played.

I think that in 3e FR, at least, the majority of the ancestral group of elves which became the drow were dark-skinned (not the drow pitch-black), and that they and a bunch of same-minded lighter-skinned ones turned black (and white-haired, and red-eyed) as a result of a divine curse*. No mention anywhere that the color change was ever reversed, on individual or group basis, if they shifted back to the good side. (The followers of Eilistraee, who made up the majority of not-nasty drow in Realms were just as black as their evil underground cousins, which was a big cause of trouble for them.)

*) Later on, the Gold Elves established themselves as generally arrogant, imperialistic and overall horrible bastards to other elves, humans and anyone else. Their kingdoms got stomped as well, but didn't get the color shift.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	wakboth 2009-03-11 08:04 pm UTC (link)
	Ooh. A friend of mine (she's something of a drow specialist) says that the "Good drow turning lighter in color" thing comes from Raymond Feist, and not from D&D as such. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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