james_nicoll: [...] take arms against a sea of troubles/And by opposing end them

james_nicoll (

james_nicoll) wrote,
@ 2009-03-08 10:48:00

[...] take arms against a sea of troubles/And by opposing end them
Greg Egan takes issue with many reviews of Incandescence but with Adam Roberts' review in particular

(105 comments) - (Post a new comment)

carloshasanax
2009-03-08 03:09 pm UTC (link)

These days there's often some ranting about “nerds” and “geeks” — words that belong in the same rubbish pile as “niggers” and “gooks”

Uh-huh. I remember the footage of police dogs being sicced on innocent engineering students in Pasadena, who were just trying to get a copy of Astounding from the local drugstore.

And who can forget those great words of Steven Wozniak, standing on the steps of the National Air and Space Museum. "Wow, there sure are a lot of us!"

I'm glad that Egan is standing up for himself after four hundred years of bewilderment from the general public. Say it loud! I like Turing's resolution of Hilbert's Entscheidungsproblem and I'm proud!

Back to Egan vs. Roberts. popcorn in the morning smells like victory!

PS Charlie, this is really why you should watch Heathers.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

gohover
2009-03-08 04:22 pm UTC (link)

Teachers in American schools have become much more sensitive to the problems caused by bullying. While racism is much more evil than discriminating against geeks, in actual practice, both are cracked down upon just as harshly in many schools these days. You can quite fairly bring up police dogs, but they'll bring up Columbine and then argue that while there is no equivalence between the evils of institutional racism and bullying, they are vigorously trying to stamp out both in their classrooms. Also, from a high school teacher's point of view, both racism and discrimination against geeks have another thing in common: both can lead to students sitting on their hands and not participating in classroom discussions, for fear of either "acting white" or "acting like a geek". Finally, both can make a childhood unpleasant which can have long-term ramifications. And once again: saying that two things have something in common isn't to say that one is just as bad as the other.

PS As for Roberts vs Egan, Egan's comments made me want to read the book. If you separate out his aggravation with Roberts from the information about the book Egan provides, the informational part was kind of interesting, and it sounds to me like this information and advice should have been included in a delightfully geeky/nerdy appendix to the novel.

	(Anonymous) 2009-03-09 02:21 pm UTC (link)
	carloshasanax: I apologise for the genuine offence this passage caused you, and I've amended the essay to remove the comparison. While I honestly did not intend to imply that the harm caused by these terms was comparable, I accept that people could reach that conclusion, which is one that I certainly agree is offensive. Greg Egan (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	jhetley 2009-03-08 03:17 pm UTC (link)
	I think there's a general sense that replying to reviews can't end well. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	autopope 2009-03-08 03:24 pm UTC (link)
	Yup. On the other hand? I can see exactly why Adam Roberts got up Greg Egan's nose so far that Greg had to sneeze. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	james_nicoll 2009-03-08 03:28 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think it necessarily has to end badly. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	seawasp 2009-03-08 03:20 pm UTC (link)
	You'd think Egan would know better. I've occasionally replied to or commented on reviews, but I (a) prefer to comment on the positive ones, and (B) take the bad as more humorous than anything else. I mean, you can't really take them seriously or they give you indigestion. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	james_nicoll 2009-03-08 03:31 pm UTC (link)
	Were you around for the discussions of Teranesia? I don't think it is entirely wrong to say Egan is not very enthusiastic about permitting errors to pass uncommented on, particularly if they involve his books, and he has a detectable amount of loyalty to his own models. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	autopope 2009-03-08 03:31 pm UTC (link)
	As a supplemental comment: I don't think it's helpful that we apply the same label to the genres that Adam Roberts and Greg Egan work in -- and turning one of them loose on the other is bound to end in tears. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	james_nicoll 2009-03-08 03:33 pm UTC (link)
	Although, to be fair, I bounced a third of the way in to Incandescence I am baffled by this. The plot seemed straight-forward enough to me (I will admit large portions of my brain are doctrinaire Newtonian). (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	james_nicoll 2009-03-08 03:43 pm UTC (link)
	And he doesn't even do his research to get the settings right! He did have someone vet Gradisil to avoid unfortunate errors. It didn't work but he did at least try. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jamiam 2009-03-08 04:11 pm UTC (link)
	Wait, so how exactly are your issues Roberts' books relevant at all to his issues with Egan's book? (I mean, I see your addendum to your comment there. But it still just sounds like maybe you've had a bad run-in with Roberts yourself, and want to take this opportunity complain about his differing literary values.) Edited at 2009-03-08 04:15 pm UTC (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	gohover 2009-03-08 05:48 pm UTC (link)
	'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. Also, beware the frumious use of Nadsat in Clockwork Orange.... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	tomscud 2009-03-09 03:14 am UTC (link)
	Not nonsense, actually. Arabic. Bizarrely transliterated Arabic, to boot. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	agrumer 2009-03-09 06:31 am UTC (link)
	I contend that Egan is only marginally sane That's a bit extreme, don't you think? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	burger_eater 2009-03-08 05:42 pm UTC (link)
	Hmm. Before I click, I'm going to ask if this post should have had your new OSC tag on it. Okay. Clicking away. (Reply to this)

	mindstalk 2009-03-08 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	Oh no! Egan ends sentences with prepositions! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	autopope 2009-03-08 06:39 pm UTC (link)
	And this is wrong, how? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	carloshasanax 2009-03-09 03:54 am UTC (link)
	"Hi! In my novel, I wrote 'south' as 'spermth'! In Arabic! Because I'm transgressive! Remember Cronulla!" He must have been one humorless fundie. The labels change, but the dickishness remains the same. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	soon_lee 2009-03-09 08:32 am UTC (link)
	Interesting. My experience was inverse to yours: "Incandescence" was challenging but fun (and short), whereas "Anathem" grated because I didn't think I was about to embark on a stealth treatise on schools of philosophy (and it was long). The parts of "Anathem" where stuff happened were fun, the talking heads, not so much. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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